Shaming the Shameless Pt. 3a

It is time, once again, to “shame” Jehovah’s Witness apologist Bernard Maina who never seems to learn his lesson.

Here are the comments that he sent me in response to my last post https://answeringislamblog.wordpress.com/2016/11/06/shaming-the-shameless-pt-2a/ where I took his use of the Authorized King James Version (AV) of the Holy Bible and turned it against him:

Obviously Sam you are not a serious scholar. If you were you would by now have read the Foreword of the Revised Standard Version. It says that the King James Version has “serious defects.” I am sorry to report that many of those “serious defects” were intentionally introduced to prop up the obnoxious doctrine of the Trinity. Verses were translated with a Trinitarian “accent.”

For example, look at 1 John 5:7. Some words were inserted that are not in the original Greek text. And this KJV, with all its ‘defects’ receives accolades from none other than Sam Shamoun.

His level of understanding of scripture is LOWER than an average Jehovah’s Witness in the village. But he can’t learn. Pride can’t allow him.

And:

The Foreword of the Revised Standard Version says King James Version has “serious defects.” But Sam will hear none if it. He still prefers KJV despite the “serious defects.” The Jehovah’s Witnesses have moved on. He is not aware.

Maina not only ignored everything I wrote, but he basically ends up throwing his very own organization under the bus!

Let me repost what his own society claims for the AV:

The early settlers from England who landed in North America brought with them the Geneva Bible. Later, however, the King James Version gained greater acceptance in America. As the British Empire expanded throughout the world, Protestant missionaries spread its use. Since many who translated the Bible into local languages were unfamiliar with Biblical Hebrew and Greek, the King James Version in English became the basis for these local translations.

Today, according to the British Library, “The King James, or Authorised, Version of the Bible remains the most widely published text in the English language.” Some estimates put the number of copies of the King James Version produced in print worldwide at over one billion!…

Although the Bible remains the world’s best seller—and the King James Version is the most popular one—Professor Richard G. Moulton observed: “We have done almost everything that is possible with these Hebrew and Greek writings. . . . We have translated them [and] revised the translations . . . There is yet one thing left to do with the Bible: simply to read it.”

Without question, the King James Version is a literary masterpiece, appreciated and valued for its unparalleled beauty of expression. But what about the importance of its message? The Bible’s inspired writings reveal the lasting remedy for the problems of our critical times. No matter which version or translation you choose to use, Jehovah’s Witnesses will be happy to help you in your study of the Bible. (Awake!, “The King James Version—How It Became Popular,” December 2011, pp. 24 http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102011446#h=2; bold emphasis ours)

Therefore, Mania is simply lying when he states that the Witnesses have moved beyond the AV, since the foregoing praise of the AV comes from the December 2011 edition of their Awake publication. And, as I clearly stated in my initial response, the JW organization not only praises and endorses the AV as an accurate translation of the Holy Bible, it even continues to make it available for free both on its website (https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/) and on its JW library app (https://www.jw.org/en/online-help/jw-library/).

In light of all this, why is Maina appealing to the comments of the Revised Standard Version (RSV) when they clearly contradict the very society that he erroneously believes is Jehovah’s anointed and spirit-filled organization on earth? Does he really want to take the position of a group of translators whom he thinks are all part of corrupt Christendom over against the belief of Jehovah’s earthly administration?

With that said, we are now going to use the RSV, which Maina himself appealed to, and show how even this particular translation proves that the NWT of the JWs is a corrupt and unreliable version of the Holy Bible.

We begin by contrasting the AV and RSV with NWT in order to highlight the Society’s willingness to deliberately pervert and mistranslate specific texts, which deal with the subject of the Trinity.

AV RSV NWT
“saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him… And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also… And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.” Matthew 2:2, 8, 11

“Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.” Matthew 14:33

“And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him… And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.” Matthew 28:9, 17

“But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,” Mark 5:6

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” John 1:1

“Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.” John 8:58

“And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.” Exodus 3:14

“And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.” John 9:38

“The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.” John 10:33

“And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the MIND of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.” Romans 8:27

“Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above EVERY name:” Philippians 2:9

“for by him were ALL THINGS created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: ALL THINGS were created by him, and for him: and he is before ALL THINGS, and by him ALL THINGS consist.” Colossians 1:16-17

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the GODHEAD bodily.” Colossians 2:9

“And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him… But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O Godis for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.” Hebrews 1:6, 8

“‘Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the East, and have come to worship him.’… and he sent them to Bethlehem, saying, ‘Go and search diligently for the child, and when you have found him bring me word, that I too may come and worship him.’… and going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.”

“And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, ‘Truly you are the Son of God.’”

“And behold, Jesus met them and said, ‘Hail!’ And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him… And when they saw him they worshiped him; but some doubted.”

“And when he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and worshiped him;”

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

“Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.’”

“God said to Moses, ‘I am who I am. And he said, ‘Say this to the people of Israel, “I am has sent me to you.”’”

“He said, ‘Lord, I believe’; and he worshiped him.”

“The Jews answered him, ‘It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God.’”

“And he who searches the hearts of men knows what is the MIND of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.”

“Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above EVERY name,”

“for in him ALL THINGS were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities—ALL THINGS were created through him and for him. He is before ALL THINGS, and in him ALL THINGS hold together.”

“For in him the whole fulness of DEITY dwells bodily,”

“And again, when he brings the first-born into the world, he says, ‘Let all God’s angels worship him.’… But of the Son he says, ‘Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever, the righteous scepter is the scepter of thy kingdom.”

“saying: ‘Where is the one born king of the Jews? For we saw his star when we were in the East, and we have come to do obeisance to him.’… When sending them to Bethʹle·hem, he said: ‘Go make a careful search for the young child, and when you have found him, report back to me so that I too may go and do obeisance to him.’… And when they went into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and falling down, they did obeisance to him. They also opened their treasures and presented him with gifts—gold and frankincense and myrrh.”

“Then those in the boat did obeisance to him, saying: ‘You really are God’s Son.’”

“And look! Jesus met them and said: ‘Good day!’ They approached and took hold of his feet and did obeisance to him…  When they saw him, they did obeisance, but some doubted.”

“But on catching sight of Jesus from a distance, he ran and bowed down to him.”

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was A god.”

“Jesus said to them: ‘Most truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been.’”

“So God said to Moses: ‘I Will Become What I Choose to Become.’ And he added: ‘This is what you are to say to the Israelites, “I Will Become has sent me to you.”’”

“He said: ‘I do put faith in him, Lord.’ And he did obeisance to him.”

“The Jews answered him: ‘We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy; for you, although being a man, make yourself A god.’”

“But the one who searches the hearts knows what the MEANING of the spirit is, because it is pleading in harmony with God for the holy ones.”

“For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every OTHER name,”

“because by means of him all OTHER things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All OTHER things have been created through him and for him. Also, he is before all OTHER things, and by means of him all OTHER things were made to exist,”

“because it is in him that all the fullness of the DIVINE QUALITY dwells bodily.”

“But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: ‘And let all of God’s angels do obeisance to him.’… But about the Son, he says: God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness.’”

This is just a small sampling of places where the RSV agrees with the AV over against the NWT. Therefore, if the RSV is correct that the AV has serious defects, then how much more would this apply to the NWT seeing all the times that it goes against the RSV’s rendering of key passages concerning the Deity of the Lord Jesus and the Personhood of the Holy Spirit? Would Maina therefore condemn the NWT as a perversion of God’s Word, especially since he is the one who appealed to the comments of the RSV in order to discredit the AV?

Maina’s woes are just beginning, as he is about to discover in the next installment of our rebuttal.

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3 thoughts on “Shaming the Shameless Pt. 3a

  1. I think Sam is an Arab. That’s why English is a problem. The word “worship” means:

    – adoration
    – adulation
    -awe
    – beatification
    -Church service
    -respect
    – honor
    -etc.
    Obeisance means “deferential respect.”
    English is a language many people who have gone to school understand

    Sam should be alive to the fact that readers know a bit of English.

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  2. Its not Jehovah’s Witnesses who are saying the KJV has “defects. ” Its the trinitarians themselves. The JWs simply quote. Sam is quoting the position of the Watchtower Society BEFORE the 1950s and applies it to now. If the KJV was perfect, there would be no need to have the NWT. Jehovah’s Witnesses use NWT for their in-house use to ensure unanimity of thought. Its not for Sam Shamoun to read it and critic it. Just as we have KJV as the “Authorized Version” for use in the Church of England, the JWs also have their “Authorized Version” for use at their places of worship.
    Sam Shamoun is not a Jehovah’s Witness. Why the bother? Why the pain? Who asked him anyway?

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